我為什麼熱衷於翻譯《尚書》
國際觀察
作者：王碧薇
今年是中英文化交流年。年初，英國首相卡梅倫在慶祝中國農曆新年的賀詞中提到，2015年中英關係將迎來“黃金時代”。在習近平主席出訪英國前夕，《黨建》雜誌、黨建網於10月8日專門邀請英國愛丁堡公爵菲利普親王的特別顧問、英國漢學家Martin Palmer（中文名：彭馬田）來做客，就中英文化交流的一些話題進行了采訪。
Wang： I know that you are a translator of many Chinese classic books， like the Shang Shu， the Zhuang Zi， and the Yi Jing. I am very curious about how did you fall in love with Chinese culture and such Chinese classic books？
王：你是《尚書》《莊子》《易經》等中國古籍經典英文版的翻譯者。我很好奇你是如何對中國文化和這些中國古籍經典產生興趣的？
Martin： Well， when I was 18 years old， I went to Hong Kong to work in a Christian home. That taught me basic classical Chinese. Then， I went to Cambridge University. In Cambridge， I studied theology and religious studies， and classical Chinese. That deepened my knowledge. You have a good question about why I was interested in the classics. When I got to Hong Kong in 1972， I realized that in the whole of my time in school in England， I had never studied anything about Chinese philosophy， Chinese history or Chinese religion.
彭馬田：我18歲的時候來到香港，在一個基督教家庭工作，這段經曆讓我認識了簡單的繁體中文。後來，（回到英國），我來到劍橋大學學習。在劍橋我的專業是神學宗教研究和中國古文，這增加了我的中文知識。你提了一個很好的問題：我為什麼會對中國古籍經典產生興趣。我1972年回到香港，我意識到我在英國受到的所有教育都沒有讓我對中國哲學、中國曆史和中國宗教有所了解。
I studied nothing about China. So I was hungry to find out this wonderful and complex culture that I was in. I just simply read every book that I could lay my hands on about China. But I found that a lot of the translations were quite clumsy and quite bad. I just thought that somebody would do a better translation. Few years later， I started to do so.
我對於中國什麼都沒有學到。所以我非常渴求了解這個我所處的神奇而深奧的文化。於是，我立即把我手邊每一本關於中國的書都拿出來讀了一遍。但是我發現許多英譯書非常差強人意。我就想有沒有人可以做一些精彩的翻譯呢？於是，沒過幾年，我就開始了這項工作。
Wang： When and why did you really decide to translate them？
王：什麼時候你正式決定翻譯中國古籍經典？有什麼樣的契機？
Martin： There was the only book the people in the West knew from China——the Yi Jing. They knew that， but that was a terrible translation. I thought I had to go， and I thought it was the most difficult book to translate of all.
彭馬田：當時，西方人唯一知道的來自中國的書是《易經》，盡管為人所知，但是這本書翻譯得並不好。我意識到了自己翻譯的責任，同時我也認為它在我翻譯的所有著作中是最難的一本。
I should say at the beginning that I do not think I translate. I interpret. I do not think it is possible to translate from one culture to another. What you can do is to interpret one culture to another. So this culture understands a bit more about that culture.
首先我需要指出的是，我並不認為我自己是在翻譯，其實我是在解讀。一種文化是不能被翻譯成另一種文化的，我們能做的是將一種文化向另一種文化進行解讀。不同文化間也會因此加深對彼此的了解。
Wang： There are the two books from you. They are the Shang Shu and the Zhuang Zi. There are a huge amount of Chinese classic books. Why did you choose these two？
王：這兩本書是你的翻譯作品：《尚書》和《莊子》。眾所周知，中國古籍經典浩如煙海，你為什麼要選擇這兩本來翻譯呢？
Martin： As I said， I have already translated the Dao De Jing. Other than the Bible and the Koran， the Dao De Jing is the most translated book in the world. My feeling is， having worked with Taoist now for 30 years， that the Dao De Jing is very important. If you want to catch the spirit of Taoism， you should read the Zhuang Zi because the Dao De Jing has no jokes and funny bits in it. The Zhuang Zi is full of jokes. So I think if you want to get the spirit of Taoism， you should read the Zhuang Zi. If you want the philosophy of Taoism， you should read the Dao De Jing.
彭馬田：正如我所說，我已經翻譯了《道德經》。除了《聖經》和《古蘭經》，《道德經》是世界上被翻譯最多的書籍。研究道家三十年來，我的感受是《道德經》非常重要。但是，如果你想抓住道家的思想精髓，你應該讀《莊子》。因為《道德經》裏麵沒有幽默，而《莊子》裏卻是滿篇幽默而輕鬆的故事。所以我認為，如果你想理解道家的思想，去讀《莊子》。如果你想弄懂道家的哲學，去讀《道德經》。
What I love about the Shang Shu is if you want to understand the way， in which Chinese culture is rooted in history， you should read the Shang Shu. The Shang Shu is a very radical book. It teaches hierarchy， teaches the respect to the emperor， but it also teaches that the emperor only has the right to rule because of the mandate of heaven. If the people feel that the mandate of heaven has been lost by the emperor， they have the right to overthrow the emperor.
So I think it is an important book. I think it is the oldest history book of China. I think it reveals to the West an understanding of the continuity of Chinese history from Xia and Shang， right the way through to the present day. Unless you read the Shang Shu， I do not think you can understand China today.